Your Place To Have YOUR Say

by **tolly** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:37 pm

hi all i wam aware that i have read a post later on this year about how fish have now sense of feeling and was wondering if any one has any more information on this because i am doing it for my GCSE and was pleading for your help

my god im going to get a lot of stick because of this post.

also i was wondering if anyone could suggest any questions that i could include in a questionnaire

thanks once again tolly

by **Big_Al** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:18 pm

How are the fish going to hold the pen to fill in the questionnaire???

Sorry, on a serious note good on you for being able to take the fishing aspect into school.

by **dave whittaker** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:24 pm

ops: i did something like that for my cse and failed ,good luck tolly

by **Alan Goodrum** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:03 pm

I think most of the research has been carried out on salmonid fish, so if you take a look at game fishing literature you should be able to find it, or possibly look up trout and salmon magazine for info. :roll:

Hope this helps

by **Alan Goodrum** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:11 pm

I just tried - fish feel pain - on Google - bit of info comes up.

Other place to look may be koi carp info.

by **Holyjo** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:46 pm

Its fantastic that this is part of your curriculum options and I am sure most members of the forum are keen to hear about your learning

All the best

Whats the title of your thesis/essay

As regards questions. How about focussing on visible signs of fish distress after capture. I am always amazed how the fish I catch move back into the silent deep so calmy.

Not at all like a human under water coming out for breath

by **webmaster** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:39 pm

James Rose of the University of Wyoming has put forth a strong argument for the inability of fish to experience pain that relies on analogy between human and fish neuroanatomy. Rose emphasizes the distinction between reaction to injury and psychological experience of pain and emphasizes that the existence of the former does not evince the existence of the latter. Indeed, human experiments have proven that pain is experienced in the brain and that sensation of and reaction to noxious, or potentially harmful, stimuli can occur without the experience of pain. The concept of nociception makes this possible.

Nociception:

The term nociception refers to the detection of noxious stimuli by the nervous system. The peripheral nervous receptors we call nociceptors sense stimuli and report to the central nervous system where motor responses are initiated and the sensation of pain is perceived. Some fish species certainly do have nociceptive neurones analogous to those found in the human (see Neuro-physiology of Pain in Fish). However, this means only that these animals are capable of sensing noxious stimuli; it provides no evidence for the psychological experience of pain.

Pain Related Chemicals:

Teleost nervous systems also produce opiate-related compounds and proteins similar to the GABA/benzodiazepen receptors that play a role in the sensation of human pain. However, these compounds are not exclusively related to pain in humans and may play other roles in the physiology of fish. For greater evidence of the psychological experience of pain it seems appropriate to examine the brain.

The Brain:

According to Bermond (1997) the highly developed neocortex of the human cerebral hemispheres is responsible for our ability to experience emotions and sensations such as pain. The existence of this feature in the fish brain would strengthen an argument for the ability of fish to experience pain. However, the fish brain is dominated by brainstem components and features very primitive cerebral hemispheres that lack neocortex. Humans require this neocortex for basic sensory functions as it is thought to be responsible for interpreting the sensory information received and processed by our brainstem and spinal cord. In fish, a higher level of cortical sensory interpretation appears nonexistent, since fish behaviour is unaffected by cortical damage. For example, cortical damage in a human may cause blindness whereas the complete removal of a fish’s cerebral hemispheres causes no apparent change in sensory-dependant behaviour.

If we assume, as Rose and Bermond do, that the neocortex is necessary for pain sensation, then we must admit that sensation of pain in any animal lacking an analogous structure is unlikely. Fish would therefore lack the neurological capability to experience the negative psychological sensation of pain.

by **Shimano_addict** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:54 pm

I think webmaster has done all the work FOR u tolly :lol:

by **Ekins** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:59 pm

yeah i agree you test thing should be easy now :lol:

by **Cockney Wideboy** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:34 pm

And now children, its time for Word of the Day. Today's word is:

PLAGIARISM

by **tolly** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:53 pm

cheers webmaster :lol:

you are a ledgend this has helped a considerable amount towards my PRS and thanks to any one else that feels free to help with this

by **dave whittaker** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:56 pm

tolly his a leg end :lol:

by **madaboutsilurus** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:58 pm

i don't have anything mre useful to add than Kim but that is not going to stop

me. Dave whitticar implied that he did something similar when he was at school. What he actually meant was that he did a cave painting.

it would definately be worth contacting channel 4 if you want to be a real swat and tell them as par of your research you want to view reg hall and his fishing friends annadaptation of the research on fish feeling pain.

there is a distinct difference betwen experiencing and feeling pain and reg hell put this across very well.

i am greatly encouraged by the flexibity in the curriculum these days as all we could learn at school was the games teacher was a <font color=red><b>censored</b></font>

(hopefully) kims device works and that for your drug use to be undetected do it openly as staff were monitoring the loo's.

good luck bloke i am sure tha you would do well but feel free to send your assignment to auntie Kim before gving it qas yoiur final assignment.